Curse

Abedeus · Nov 05, 2009, 01:10 PM // 13:10

No, I don't miss it.

I played mainly with henches anyway, because PuGs were terribad and in those days I only PvPed with my guild, rarely any PvE.

BlackSephir · Nov 05, 2009, 01:13 PM // 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by QueenofDeath

If Anet had of done right and never implemented heroes or only allowed so many henchmen and nixed solo builds and running content from the start this game would have never gotten into the mess it's gotten into.

Because as we all know, current and past GW problems were caused by heroes.

IceQ · Nov 05, 2009, 01:16 PM // 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Operative 14

Not really, it allows me to actually play the game.

I have a very busy schedule (as I'm sure a few here can sympathize with). My heros don't mind if I have to 'x' out suddenly or go AFK for 45 minutes because I have to do the dishes or this and that. I can actually play the game, and not spend an hour trying to get into a balanced pug. I don't need to spend a week or two trying to get past a single mission becuase I need that balance between enough time to actually do the mission (and spend about 25 minutes 'GLF MONK!'ing) and find a group that can get through the mission.

I do admit, it was fun to gear up and go to war with a group of new people and experience that thrill of 'we did it!' at the end of a successful mission. But at the end of the day, this allows me to play the game instead of using GW as a pretty IM client.

^
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That. I am also ,as someone else said, in an inactive guild. all my friends have stopped playing GW. So to get my guardian and vanq will you get 7 people together in all the outposts and wait for me? No, I have actually been to mission outposts in tyria where I was the only one in the outpost. so your telling me that I have to wait there for 3-7 other people to pitch up? I am sorry, I started GW with Factions. My friend and I both got our protector titles with henchies. Then NF came out. we got our protector title with heroes (was great since we could really slap together a good team). Sure we pugged some of them, (esp Cantha since the time limits really caught up with you if you where using just henchies.)

So lets be really honest, the 3 maps are Huge, do you really expect people to be spread out all over them right now? The largest concentration of people are still in EotN.

I am using the Zquests to do the missions to get my Guardian Title, do those then if you "miss the good old days". If you don't like the mission... log off and go outside or a mall and go watch a movie.

I vanquish regions here and there when the mood strikes me... I was half way with the region outside Amnoon Oasis (forget the name), when I had to leave for a bit... the "bit" turned into 3 hours. My h/h just stood there waiting without complaints. Now you tell me if I where to do that in a pug... lol

No, they did not ruin the game. They did not make it better either. What makes a game good or bad is yourself. If you keep telling yourself that the game was ruined by white items, you are going to believe that the game is ruined. It is all in each persons mind. I still enjoy the game, the only annoying thing is that I can't have 7 heroes (yea yea i know), but I stated it is an annoyance.. not a game breaker. I solo missions/quests/vanqs because I can, and I can do them at my own pace on my own time.

I really don't know why I am typing all of this. I will just get a "your a noob" sticker and they will almost instantly fall into the whole (Heroes/55/600/SF) ruined the game. Did they really? or is it just you don't know how to use them? I still solo the chamber or UW with my 55, I experiment with 600 when I feel like it. I don't have an SF assassin, and you know what? The world has not come to an end.

Besides WW2 was worse, people actually died there. This is just a game. If you don't like it anymore, why are you still playing?

Aera Lure · Nov 05, 2009, 01:43 PM // 13:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay02483

does anyone here ever miss how it was before heroes, when ur guild/alliance actually got together to do missions/quests....when random groups where going to explore...now every1 desires to use heroes and be as efficent as possible and dont care bout having fun...

Yes. Teams were mostly made of human players and the mere suggestion of bringing a henchman was frowned on. PUGs generally accomplished what they set out to do and players showed more cooperative skill. Those were my favorite days of Guild Wars. I miss those days.

Heroes were not the only factor towards changing them, however. As people became more experienced, the mindset of more and more efficient and impatient play surfaced. Heroes simply helped move the change along. I enjoyed what Guild Wars became - just not as much as what it was before.

The Scorpion Knight · Nov 05, 2009, 01:48 PM // 13:48

If it wasn't for Hero's Guardian and Vanquishing titles would be a pain.

Kenzo Skunk · Nov 05, 2009, 02:00 PM // 14:00

I miss eraser pens..

Kali Magdalene · Nov 05, 2009, 02:01 PM // 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

There was no difference before heroes and after heroes.

Let me repeat that: There was no difference between before heroes and after heroes.

I have henched every mission in prophecies and factions multiple times. The usual rule in our guild was "just hench it." If the person in question couldn't, then they were considered hopeless.

The blame placed upon heroes is misguided. Heroes did not overnight turn the game into something that could be done single player, it was already a game that could be done single player. It was not long after heroes were added that the community at large realized that the came could be done single player, the heroes themselves are but a red herring.

If you want to blame something then blame henchmen and the community learning about the game.

Oh, heroes did make a difference - you can set up builds for your henchmen, stack classes in ways that you can't with henchmen, and so on. I mean, I henched a significant part of Prophecies and Factions, and I just find heroes more fun to use.

Also nice: flags.

Also, for QueenofDeath:

I was trying out a hero build with my necromancer, decided to give it a go in hard mode Docks. While I was making sure everything was in order, two other players asked me for help doing the mission in normal mode - which I agreed to do. But that was it, in the US district, docks in late afternoon Pacific time, three human players total. The playerbase is spread rather thinly throughout all four installments, and the earlier you get, the fewer people you're likely to find doing the quests and missions you're on. Do you really want to force full grouping in that environment?

Hugh Manatee · Nov 05, 2009, 02:02 PM // 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera Lure

Yes. Teams were mostly made of human players and the mere suggestion of bringing a henchman was frowned on. PUGs generally accomplished what they set out to do and players showed more cooperative skill. Those were my favorite days of Guild Wars. I miss those days.

^The suggestion of henchmen was frowned on because the most needed part of the party was usually a monk, and alesia's bar sucked ass. In factions they actually gave henchmen decent bars what didn't suck(they could actually remove hexes and conditions and not just spam Heal breeze VS shattering wind riders till they 0 out of energy...). Other then that the rest of that paragraph is either false or you're playing a different game...

Thirsty River was a noobmaker mission, I recall EVERY pug I took there failed miserably. Thing is, at each enclave you had 2 minutes to gank the priest, so every tank, nuker or whatever would waste time trying o kill that priest and let the rest of the forgotten zerg the backline. I try to explain how this fails before the mission, that you can kill their whole mob, then gank the priest at leisure but they were stupid, so I H&H'd it+ bonus in the first try(I was hesitant due to the aforementioned monk hench failure in the jungle, but they get better in the desert).

Same deal with THK, The first part of the mission is a cakewalk, then you get to the castle, and all you have to do is camp at jalis and fight stuff as it comes up the stairs, but stupid ****ing, pug, wammo, moron, dungbrained idiots would try and hold a gate uninfused... I try and tell them, hold at the king, stay together, but they run off and die like a wrist slashing emo...

Then there's the "glory days" of Sorrows teamwork... yeah right, "LF KEG SS MM BONDS" or "LF 3 BP MM" You either had to have a BP ranger(and this was when barrage was a lot harder to cap) a necro or a monk, or a stance tank or you didn't get in a group(or rather, you got in a fail group of other rejects).

Reverend DR is 100% correct, anyone who had written off pugs did so way the hell before NF was released, probably even before factions was released, and it wasn't the fault of any AI or added feature, it was pug's own inherent fail that caused this. Not only that but Heroes made pugs better, no more waiting for 1/2 hour in the jungle areas for a monk to show up, and having to take alesia's failing dumbass, you can fill slots in a party better, play better, and not be handicapped by other player's failure and the shortsightedness of the henchmen's bars.

Xeros Rex · Nov 05, 2009, 02:03 PM // 14:03

Would be nice doing some missions/quests with some actual people not h&h.

Shadowhaze · Nov 05, 2009, 02:10 PM // 14:10

I wasn't around in the begining sadly.

I started with Proph though and I pugged my way through on a few chars. It was interesting. Met some good players, some bad (which I'm sure I was in the begining

). Found a guild with people who were nice and helped when needed. Then I got Fac and NF. Heroes were a nice change. If I wanted to do something, I didn't have to use henchmen or wait around for people.

Now most of the people I originally did things with no longer play. So new and bigger guild now that enjoys chatting and doing things together, which imo is always a nice thing. I do still take my heroes and hench out on some things that I don't want to bother other people with or if no one is interested in doing at the time. Sometimes it's also nice to have them because then I can afk when I need to and not worry about slowing a team of people down.

But overall, I enjoy playing with people more.

Wefta · Nov 05, 2009, 02:15 PM // 14:15

I do miss the old days actually. I only experienced factions without heroes, but it was enjoyable, because a group was easy to find.

Now everything is about having good hero builds, and if you don't have that you'll most likely get kicked.. And myself, I don't really care too too much about having the top hero builds and updating them all the time as if they were my most valuable jewels.

Stolen Souls · Nov 05, 2009, 02:17 PM // 14:17

I don't miss it...because there's nothing for me to miss. Back in the "old days" I was still playing by myself...the only difference is that I was grouped with henchman instead of heros. I learned very soon after I started playing, that it's more efficient, more fun, and less stressful to just hench everything. I still had "player interraction"...I chatted with guildies while I henched my way through everything, and occasionally grouped with a friend or guildie, so that wasn't an issue. All heros did for me was to make playing more fun.

I find it to be extremely fun, to meet up with a friend, add six heros and just head out. Grouping with a random mix of morons and failing not long after however....not fun.

So no, I don't miss it at all.

Erik Fox · Nov 05, 2009, 02:52 PM // 14:52

The part I miss is my original guild. We knew each other really well, we did almost everything together, and we didn't rely on the cookie cutter builds. Now I simply cannot find a guild I "belong" to and every one of them is either very elitist and wants the 150% most effective build or GTFO, and their sense of fun is gone. They don't really like getting to know new people either I think.

Heros IMO were a good thing, I like being able to tweak "henchman" to each individual area and give them their own armor and runes, etc. I don't like the way it turned out - a PUG killer.

garethporlest18 · Nov 05, 2009, 03:27 PM // 15:27

There were good things about back then, much fun to be had farming with simple builds at a nice and slow pace. Ettins and Griffons etc.

But there were also good updates in the present and not so distant past that have made the game better.

The worst for me was Nightfall's inscription change. I mean sure it's useful but it also destroyed something I liked to do, which was selling items. It was more fun when you could make a lot of money off of a mod or a certain rune or certain weapon cause it had the right mods. Now it's just not as fun and most items are junk right away.

Reformed · Nov 05, 2009, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Takes two things to get a good PuG going. A competent leader who knows the area inside and out and a group of people willing to back burner their egos and other bs for the duration. As the game got older more people wanted to be the former and not the latter with disastrous results. Enter heroes and the issue of too many cooks spoiling the soup is gone. Do I miss PuGs? Absolutely not...but I do miss having more activity in the game. Have to take the good with the bad on this one I guess.

Clobimon · Nov 05, 2009, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Heroes were one of the best additions to GW, period. Without them, and especially without henchies prior to, the game wouldn't have been nearly as popular for as long. How much of one's time is/was actually spent doing missions, the part of the game that was most usual for guild groups and pugs? Not a great percentage in the big picture I would say, no matter how many characters you run through. When a new campaign came out the first few weeks were always spent doing the missions with guildees. We'd take several through and then focus on other things with just occassional missions mixed in. 'Cheerios' were especially appreciated by me and the officers of my guild because we were expected and expected it of ourselves to help guildees with missions. Without them we would have been doing even the easiest missions dozens of times more than we already were. If we had been forced to form player groups for every single thing like exploring and questing that would have been stupidly rediculous. I wouldn't even consider playing the little that I do now if I had to form groups to achieve anything.

thejerk · Nov 05, 2009, 04:06 PM // 16:06

yea gw used to be awesome, but the advent of heroes didnt make this game worse, I think consumables and the pve only skills, and perma sf just was overkill, and ruined this game.

QueenofDeath · Nov 05, 2009, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

The blame placed upon heroes is misguided. Heroes did not overnight turn the game into something that could be done single player, it was already a game that could be done single player

Sorry you're wrong there pal. Heroes made the game entirely too easy as opposed to brainless henchies with crap builds. (You notice there was a major update to henchies recently too). Where I used to run with 7 henchies I can run with 3 heroes now and not even have to fight just pickup the loot after they clobber the ai. No you couldn't do that with the old henchies even with 7 of them easily. I remember playing with just henchies and they are nowhere or never have been as good as 3 heroes I can deck out and create synergy with myself in the way I setup their skills.

Heroes had a major impact on pugs and how people played before them. I know I've been here since the start and players just don't pug like they used to and heroes have played a big part in that a major part as they had henchies a full 7 of them long before heroes and there was plenty of pugging and grouping before them. Now all I see are jillions of players with an 8 over their heads and you know very well that's 3 heroes and 4 henchies in the majority of those zombies just standing in zones as none of them ever say anything or move.

~ Dan ~ · Nov 05, 2009, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay02483

does anyone here ever miss how it was before heroes

No, definately not.

Reformed · Nov 05, 2009, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by QueenofDeath

Where I used to run with 7 henchies I can run with 3 heroes now and not even have to fight just pickup the loot after they clobber the ai. No you couldn't do that with the old henchies even with 7 of them easily. I remember playing with just henchies and they are nowhere or never have been as good as 3 heroes I can deck out and create synergy with myself in the way I setup their skills.

Hero builds are optimized specifically for hero use...of course they are overpowered compared to henchmen. Apparently you were around since day 1 so I don't have to remind you it took a long time for people to catch on to how powerful heroes really were. Where we are today has essentially reached their full potential compared to when they were first introduced and most people were clueless. 2+ years of experimentation would tend to do that in an environment that doesn't change much.